Communist parties participating in elections, bringing popular policy to the forefront, and radicalizing the working classes? That absolutely works and is absolutely useful.
I have yet to see evidence of that in this country, like, ever at all.
You want to dismantle the system, I get that, but while the system is here I’m going to do functional harm reduction while trying to dismantle it.
That’s a long way of saying voting for communists doesn’t work.
So you’d throw trans, black and Hispanic people under the bus so working people can realize that electoralism is a dead end by letting Republicans win, even though everyone already feels that way. Cool.
I think there’s more effective tactics that will get people to be motivated for voter reform.
Eh maybe. You haven’t made a compelling argument to not vote for Democrats then. You even said the communist parties don’t win. So until there’s systematic election reform that changes things to ranked choice and not winner takes all, get rid of gerrymandering and ask the other bullshit that keeps things locked into two parties, as much as I don’t like them or agree with them, Democrats are the only party that stands a chance for winning against Republicans in an election.
And, going to repeat myself since people don’t seem to get it, and I want to be explicitly clear, I don’t agree with Democrats, condone them, or even want them in office. My voting for them isn’t because I love capitalism and genocide. I just know that whatever Democrats are, Republicans are worse. I know too many minorites that are directly attacked by Republican policies to let them take office.
So saying “there should be a revolution” means nothing in the moment because there isn’t a revolution happening. Saying “they are both capitalists so they are both bad” means nothing because yes, they are both bad, but one is less bad. Saying “we should be doing things outside of voting” means nothing because we’re not talking about what to do outside of voting, we’re talking about who to vote for.
Once I see a socialist or Communist run outside of the Democratic party that has a chance of winning anything, I’ll vote for them. Once there’s a real revolution happening I’ll be in the streets. But here and now, those things don’t exist yet, so I’m going to work with what I’ve got.
You have not made a compelling argument to stop voting.
Oh cool so that’s uh, happening right now? Somehow I’m missing the news report of the glorious revolution?
Oh wait it’s not and the regime is still there?
Damn while it’s still around and like, voting is still happening, maybe I should use the ability to vote to reduce harm to minorities while we get that revolution going.
That’s not withholding a vote. That’s a revolution. There’s a difference.
Show me any time where people withholding their votes did anything productive with long term change and I’ll change my mind.
I’ve been volunteering with a group that’s been trying to unite Hispanic and non Hispanic people through education involving worker history, and using those presentations as ways to learn how to organize so we can meet the needs of the community. We’ve been doing ICE spotting, giving rides to people so they are safe traveling for work or school, getting legal assistance for people who need it and food/financial assistance to people who are hiding because they are being targeted by ICE.
So, you know, that whole localized community building and support people say is fundamental for long term actionable change.
What are you doing, besides saying people who vote love genocide?
I don’t know where you live, but here we don’t have the privilege of voting for things. Only against. In an ideal situation we would vote for the things we want, but that’s not reality here.
Ok Jimmy, that’s a neato idea, but it doesn’t work.
That’s like just letting anyone steer your car.
And the people in charge would rather have less people vote, so you’re not withholding anything, you’re just playing into their hands.
Don’t be fooled into thinking not voting is somehow going to do something, Jimmy, that’s a known route to failure.
Ok, so until this glorious revolution happens, while it’s getting started, I’m still going to vote, and I’m going to vote against the Republicans until I’m presented with a better option. I’m going to do what I can inside and outside of the system, and I’m not going to throw away agency I’ve got for a hypothetical revolution.
Not voting doesn’t magically make the whole system fall apart, so yeah, it’s still going to run parallel as long as that’s true.
I was going to illustrate the point of voting for the lesser evil while working towards the greater good, but that got shot down so nevermind I guess.
Sorry, you haven’t made a very compelling argument so I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing, thanks.
That, while the revolution is important and what we need to work towards, it’s also not happening right now. Right now, we need to do what we can. The US government still exists, the empire isn’t toppled yet, so while that system is still around, you should be doing what you can within and without the system to help people. So yeah, both sides are bad, but one is slightly less bad and the other has gone rabid, so maybe don’t hand over the reigns to the rabid worse people? Both are shit sandwiches but one is on fire and covered in glass, so if you have to make everyone eat some of the sandwich, do the regular shit sandwich.
How, exactly, is not voting “leverage”? That’s the most trapeze ass brain gymnastics I’ve ever read. Refusing to vote literally doesn’t fix anything. If anything it makes whatever people who do vote have more influence, and with a bunch of conservative old fucks voting, I’m not willing to give them more say in things.
Like I said, I haven’t seen evidence for not voting being useful in this country at all, and you’re the one saying Republicans are good for getting people on board with socialism.
Unless you can link me a source for this strategy working here, I think we’re done here