What point were you trying to illustrate? That it would be strategically better to organize under a milquetoast liberal regime than a republican regime? My response is how I already responded, neither is acceptable and both would pivot to open fascism against revolution if it actually broke out.
Hell, in modern days, organizing under the GOP is paradoxically easier because they are less competent managers of empire, and spark more discontent among the populace, driving support for revolutionary change. I would never argue for voting for the GOP though, so that’s why I support third party voting, at most.
Nah, accelerationism would be supporting the DNC. Accelerationism isn’t “ruin everything,” it’s a strategy that says that if capitalism continuing results in crisis, we should have the most competent managers of empire in the front seat. This accelerates capital accumulation and crisis. I also said I am not in favor of the “ruin everything” tactic either.
That’s why I am a revolutionary, and I don’t support the DNC nor GOP. I told you why I wouldn’t vote for the GOP nor DNC. Sacrificing minority groups is unnacceptable, and climate change is an ever-present danger. That’s why revolution is necessary.
You’re probably referencing the Nazi bar that stalks communists at the end there, for what reason I don’t know.
When did I make that argument to begin with? My point was that voting is less than the bare minimum. My point was never that “voting actively damages the movement.” I advocate voting for communist parties, even if they never win, as it helps solidify the fact that liberal democracy cannot bring systemic change.
Eh maybe. You haven’t made a compelling argument to not vote for Democrats then. You even said the communist parties don’t win. So until there’s systematic election reform that changes things to ranked choice and not winner takes all, get rid of gerrymandering and ask the other bullshit that keeps things locked into two parties, as much as I don’t like them or agree with them, Democrats are the only party that stands a chance for winning against Republicans in an election.
And, going to repeat myself since people don’t seem to get it, and I want to be explicitly clear, I don’t agree with Democrats, condone them, or even want them in office. My voting for them isn’t because I love capitalism and genocide. I just know that whatever Democrats are, Republicans are worse. I know too many minorites that are directly attacked by Republican policies to let them take office.
So saying “there should be a revolution” means nothing in the moment because there isn’t a revolution happening. Saying “they are both capitalists so they are both bad” means nothing because yes, they are both bad, but one is less bad. Saying “we should be doing things outside of voting” means nothing because we’re not talking about what to do outside of voting, we’re talking about who to vote for.
Once I see a socialist or Communist run outside of the Democratic party that has a chance of winning anything, I’ll vote for them. Once there’s a real revolution happening I’ll be in the streets. But here and now, those things don’t exist yet, so I’m going to work with what I’ve got.
In that case, since I am not an accelerationist, I believe it to be more valuable to bring about revolution by voting for communist/socialist parties than to try to extend the effectiveness of imperialism by entrenching the democrats. If communists and socialists front policy that is widely popular yet consistently loses to the DNC and GOP, or wins and is defanged by capitalists and the state, this increases revolutionary potential by correctly showing the working classes why electoralism is a dead-end. Entrenching the DNC retains the illusion that the system can be reformed.
Oh cool so that’s uh, happening right now? Somehow I’m missing the news report of the glorious revolution?
Oh wait it’s not and the regime is still there?
Damn while it’s still around and like, voting is still happening, maybe I should use the ability to vote to reduce harm to minorities while we get that revolution going.
What point were you trying to illustrate? That it would be strategically better to organize under a milquetoast liberal regime than a republican regime? My response is how I already responded, neither is acceptable and both would pivot to open fascism against revolution if it actually broke out.
Hell, in modern days, organizing under the GOP is paradoxically easier because they are less competent managers of empire, and spark more discontent among the populace, driving support for revolutionary change. I would never argue for voting for the GOP though, so that’s why I support third party voting, at most.
Removed by mod
Nah, accelerationism would be supporting the DNC. Accelerationism isn’t “ruin everything,” it’s a strategy that says that if capitalism continuing results in crisis, we should have the most competent managers of empire in the front seat. This accelerates capital accumulation and crisis. I also said I am not in favor of the “ruin everything” tactic either.
That’s why I am a revolutionary, and I don’t support the DNC nor GOP. I told you why I wouldn’t vote for the GOP nor DNC. Sacrificing minority groups is unnacceptable, and climate change is an ever-present danger. That’s why revolution is necessary.
You’re probably referencing the Nazi bar that stalks communists at the end there, for what reason I don’t know.
Sorry, you haven’t made a very compelling argument so I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing, thanks.
Against the hypothetical? Or in general?
You have not made a compelling argument to stop voting.
When did I make that argument to begin with? My point was that voting is less than the bare minimum. My point was never that “voting actively damages the movement.” I advocate voting for communist parties, even if they never win, as it helps solidify the fact that liberal democracy cannot bring systemic change.
Are you confusing my points for someone else?
Eh maybe. You haven’t made a compelling argument to not vote for Democrats then. You even said the communist parties don’t win. So until there’s systematic election reform that changes things to ranked choice and not winner takes all, get rid of gerrymandering and ask the other bullshit that keeps things locked into two parties, as much as I don’t like them or agree with them, Democrats are the only party that stands a chance for winning against Republicans in an election.
And, going to repeat myself since people don’t seem to get it, and I want to be explicitly clear, I don’t agree with Democrats, condone them, or even want them in office. My voting for them isn’t because I love capitalism and genocide. I just know that whatever Democrats are, Republicans are worse. I know too many minorites that are directly attacked by Republican policies to let them take office.
So saying “there should be a revolution” means nothing in the moment because there isn’t a revolution happening. Saying “they are both capitalists so they are both bad” means nothing because yes, they are both bad, but one is less bad. Saying “we should be doing things outside of voting” means nothing because we’re not talking about what to do outside of voting, we’re talking about who to vote for.
Once I see a socialist or Communist run outside of the Democratic party that has a chance of winning anything, I’ll vote for them. Once there’s a real revolution happening I’ll be in the streets. But here and now, those things don’t exist yet, so I’m going to work with what I’ve got.
In that case, since I am not an accelerationist, I believe it to be more valuable to bring about revolution by voting for communist/socialist parties than to try to extend the effectiveness of imperialism by entrenching the democrats. If communists and socialists front policy that is widely popular yet consistently loses to the DNC and GOP, or wins and is defanged by capitalists and the state, this increases revolutionary potential by correctly showing the working classes why electoralism is a dead-end. Entrenching the DNC retains the illusion that the system can be reformed.
Ok genocide supporter, just don’t complain about Nuremburg 2
Offer a better solution then
A better solution would be doing away with genocidal ghouls like you.
Wtf are you even on about?
Oh cool so that’s uh, happening right now? Somehow I’m missing the news report of the glorious revolution?
Oh wait it’s not and the regime is still there?
Damn while it’s still around and like, voting is still happening, maybe I should use the ability to vote to reduce harm to minorities while we get that revolution going.