I guess I’ll continue to soap-box for those who are still reading and not hostile (none, by the looks of the votes) then:
I used to think “communism” was not the same as “socialism” until I was told by a communist (I think on lemmy.ml? Maybe it was Twitch?) that Karl Marx and other communist or socialist academics technically never made an academic distinction between the two.
My perception before that date was that “socialism” is kinda like a direction on a continuum (the opposite direction from “capitalism,” more or less, but more strictly speaking the opposite of “individualism” or “selfishness”), while “communism” was the destination, typically explained as an anarchist/stateless society resembling ancient societies who had literally no form of measuring trade discrepancies (e.g. currency), and would just give what extra goods they produced freely to those they believed needed it and vice versa, i.e. the Marxian mantra of “from those based on their ability, to those based on their need.”
That’s just paraphrasing off the cuff of my former understanding until I was told otherwise by someone who very much seemed to be much more educated on the topic, and you’re free to correct me/them at any point.
Marx made the distinction between “lower-stage” and “higher-stage” communism. Marxists since Marx have clarified this lower stage to be socialism, and that this stage itself has stages. Here’s a diagram by Cheng Enfu:
Communism in the Marxist conception and anarchism are in essense polar opposites, communism is a fully collectivized global system while anarchism is a fully communalized decentralized system. Through a scientifically planned economy with advanced productive forces, everyone’s needs are met in communism.
I don’t know what “flavor” you’re looking for. Apparently you have some kind of set of related but different ideas that in your head form the notion of communism. And apparently this notion leads you to think that Bernie or AOC are in favor of communism. But neither of them is in favor of anything that even remotely resembles any commonly accepted definition of communism.
I thought that was clear, and made abundantly so by my soapbox you just replied to (that it seems like you didn’t read).
Let me be as blunt as possible so you don’t miss it again:
What does (the person behind) lemmy.world/u/wpb believe “communism” and “socialism” are?
Both can have radically different forms and definitions, throughout history and between people. Debating whether or not anyone in the US is in favor of either obviously highly depends on what form we’re talking about.
Mamdani is opening government-run grocery stores. That’s socialism - wouldn’t you agree?
Republicans* in a nutshell.
And also other liberals.
Old Guard/corporate liberals, maybe.
Otherwise known as the big, historic players in the DNC.
“Liberal” is a pretty wide net that includes some people that fit your description and some people that do not.
Can you name one pro-communism liberal?
EDIT: I will respond with one of either “that’s not a liberal” or “they’re not in favor of communism”
What flavor of “communism?” I’ve been told various definitions.
For starters, are you the type to say communism and socialism are synonyms? If so, then I’d point to AOC/Bernie/etc. of the DSA.
Neither Bernie nor AOC are pro-communism.
Also communism is not socialism.
So you’re just going to side-step the question?
I guess I’ll continue to soap-box for those who are still reading and not hostile (none, by the looks of the votes) then:
I used to think “communism” was not the same as “socialism” until I was told by a communist (I think on lemmy.ml? Maybe it was Twitch?) that Karl Marx and other communist or socialist academics technically never made an academic distinction between the two.
My perception before that date was that “socialism” is kinda like a direction on a continuum (the opposite direction from “capitalism,” more or less, but more strictly speaking the opposite of “individualism” or “selfishness”), while “communism” was the destination, typically explained as an anarchist/stateless society resembling ancient societies who had literally no form of measuring trade discrepancies (e.g. currency), and would just give what extra goods they produced freely to those they believed needed it and vice versa, i.e. the Marxian mantra of “from those based on their ability, to those based on their need.”
That’s just paraphrasing off the cuff of my former understanding until I was told otherwise by someone who very much seemed to be much more educated on the topic, and you’re free to correct me/them at any point.
… or you could just dodge the discussion again.
Marx made the distinction between “lower-stage” and “higher-stage” communism. Marxists since Marx have clarified this lower stage to be socialism, and that this stage itself has stages. Here’s a diagram by Cheng Enfu:
Communism in the Marxist conception and anarchism are in essense polar opposites, communism is a fully collectivized global system while anarchism is a fully communalized decentralized system. Through a scientifically planned economy with advanced productive forces, everyone’s needs are met in communism.
lol they have responded to everyone EXCEPT this one
I don’t know what “flavor” you’re looking for. Apparently you have some kind of set of related but different ideas that in your head form the notion of communism. And apparently this notion leads you to think that Bernie or AOC are in favor of communism. But neither of them is in favor of anything that even remotely resembles any commonly accepted definition of communism.
I thought that was clear, and made abundantly so by my soapbox you just replied to (that it seems like you didn’t read).
Let me be as blunt as possible so you don’t miss it again:
What does (the person behind) lemmy.world/u/wpb believe “communism” and “socialism” are?
Both can have radically different forms and definitions, throughout history and between people. Debating whether or not anyone in the US is in favor of either obviously highly depends on what form we’re talking about.
Mamdani is opening government-run grocery stores. That’s socialism - wouldn’t you agree?