I think that the true world war 3 will not be nations against nations, but citizens against their own nations. The stage is set for an actual paradigm shift or system annihilation. We will not support civilization if it doesn’t change, either the people destroy the pyramid or the pyramid will destroy the world.
Paint me a picture of what you think that looks like. Here’s my painting: Everybody marches on their capitals, everyone gets gunned down with 30mm cannonfire, the Americans are gunned down holding pistols and rifles everyone else is gunned down holding pitchforks and torches.
I kinda doubt that will happen. For instance, look at Venezuela: Venezuelans are beyond fed up with Maduro’s dictatorship, but there’s nothing they can do against the government forces.
Governments will do anything they can to prevent a paradigm change.
Venezuela has been hurt by sanctions because the government was helping the people. The wealthy people of Venezuela don’t like the government because it is more socialist.
It is the poorer population that suffers the most. That’s the reason Venezuela has such a big emigration crisis, and every latinamerican country has also seen such a massive influx of poor emigrants. I experience this firsthand, almost daily.
It is not rich people that the militia constantly murders/kidnap.
It’s also difficult to get an honest picture of what is happening there as pretty much all western media has blatantly supported the more than a dozen coup attempts by the USA since 2000 alone. Folks who are able to get out are also biased in one way or another. We can empathize with their lived experience and try to help the immigrants without taking their personal experience to be the absolute truth of the experiences of all Venezuelans. But again, most of the issues that affect the citizens are directly caused by US sanctions, not Maduro or the government.
I can believe that the poor folks would suffer the most so I can’t disagree with you there, but Venezuela is a bad comparison to make, per your original comment I posted to, as far as the point you were trying to make on the orginal thread topic.
It is not my intention to be rude. I’m from Colombia, follow Venezuela’s status closely (from media on a broad range of the political spectrum) see Venezuelan emmigrants daily and have met quite a few Venezuelans, and yet Lemmy is the only place I’ve ever seen with people really convinced that Venezuelans love Maduro, and the current situation of the country is because of the sanctions.
It feels almost surreal, and reminds me when some people on Reddit were convinced they knew better than me what’s my country’s political status, all while mistakenly calling the country “Columbia”.
I’m not trying to argue that you should blindly trust my opinions here, but really, really, Venezuela is in a bad spot, nobody likes Maduro’s dictatorship, and the sanctions are not the main causes of any of that (but they do help). Either that or somehow almost everybody in whole Latin American has a very biased opinion from first-hand experiences, and only people from other continents can see that.
It’s laughable to argue that the main source of their economic issues are not the sanctions.
This tells me that you are not arguing in good faith.
You being from Columbia and having met a few Venezuelan immigrants is anecdotal evidence.
I also am friends and know some Venezuelan immigrants.
If someone who went to Harvard and has a trust fund leaves the United States and they tell foreigners what it was like for them growing up, how similar to the average American is their experience… not very similar at all…
We can help the guy from Harvard but his lived experience is not the absolute truth of all Americans……
This is what I mean.
Likewise, if someone was born an orphan in a bankrupt church, their lived experience is not all Americans lived experience…
Edit: it’s also somewhat reasonable to assume that maduro supporters would not be leaving the country
Yeah, the rigged ones lol. There’s even mathematical evidence of it being rigged, with votes accounting for exact percentages with just 2 decimal places, for every single candidate.
Venezuela hasn’t publish the official acts, nor let international observers be present in the elections. There was heavy repression on elections day as well, plus some offices not letting people vote.
Bus drivers can be dictators as well. It’s less about the person and more about the political situation. In Venezuelas case oppression of the opposition and unfair elections
I think that the true world war 3 will not be nations against nations, but citizens against their own nations. The stage is set for an actual paradigm shift or system annihilation. We will not support civilization if it doesn’t change, either the people destroy the pyramid or the pyramid will destroy the world.
Paint me a picture of what you think that looks like. Here’s my painting: Everybody marches on their capitals, everyone gets gunned down with 30mm cannonfire, the Americans are gunned down holding pistols and rifles everyone else is gunned down holding pitchforks and torches.
I kinda doubt that will happen. For instance, look at Venezuela: Venezuelans are beyond fed up with Maduro’s dictatorship, but there’s nothing they can do against the government forces.
Governments will do anything they can to prevent a paradigm change.
Westerners sure do seem to think they know the feelings of citizens of other countries better than those citizens themselves.
Venezuela has been hurt by sanctions because the government was helping the people. The wealthy people of Venezuela don’t like the government because it is more socialist.
It is the poorer population that suffers the most. That’s the reason Venezuela has such a big emigration crisis, and every latinamerican country has also seen such a massive influx of poor emigrants. I experience this firsthand, almost daily.
It is not rich people that the militia constantly murders/kidnap.
It’s also difficult to get an honest picture of what is happening there as pretty much all western media has blatantly supported the more than a dozen coup attempts by the USA since 2000 alone. Folks who are able to get out are also biased in one way or another. We can empathize with their lived experience and try to help the immigrants without taking their personal experience to be the absolute truth of the experiences of all Venezuelans. But again, most of the issues that affect the citizens are directly caused by US sanctions, not Maduro or the government.
I can believe that the poor folks would suffer the most so I can’t disagree with you there, but Venezuela is a bad comparison to make, per your original comment I posted to, as far as the point you were trying to make on the orginal thread topic.
It is not my intention to be rude. I’m from Colombia, follow Venezuela’s status closely (from media on a broad range of the political spectrum) see Venezuelan emmigrants daily and have met quite a few Venezuelans, and yet Lemmy is the only place I’ve ever seen with people really convinced that Venezuelans love Maduro, and the current situation of the country is because of the sanctions.
It feels almost surreal, and reminds me when some people on Reddit were convinced they knew better than me what’s my country’s political status, all while mistakenly calling the country “Columbia”.
I’m not trying to argue that you should blindly trust my opinions here, but really, really, Venezuela is in a bad spot, nobody likes Maduro’s dictatorship, and the sanctions are not the main causes of any of that (but they do help). Either that or somehow almost everybody in whole Latin American has a very biased opinion from first-hand experiences, and only people from other continents can see that.
It’s laughable to argue that the main source of their economic issues are not the sanctions.
This tells me that you are not arguing in good faith.
You being from Columbia and having met a few Venezuelan immigrants is anecdotal evidence.
I also am friends and know some Venezuelan immigrants.
If someone who went to Harvard and has a trust fund leaves the United States and they tell foreigners what it was like for them growing up, how similar to the average American is their experience… not very similar at all…
We can help the guy from Harvard but his lived experience is not the absolute truth of all Americans……
This is what I mean.
Likewise, if someone was born an orphan in a bankrupt church, their lived experience is not all Americans lived experience…
Edit: it’s also somewhat reasonable to assume that maduro supporters would not be leaving the country
Nice dodging of all points in the previous post!
Just a thought but in democracies people don’t tend to emigrate when the “other side” wins the election.
You must mean venezuelans living in the US. Maduro won elections in Venezuela.
Yeah, the rigged ones lol. There’s even mathematical evidence of it being rigged, with votes accounting for exact percentages with just 2 decimal places, for every single candidate.
Venezuela hasn’t publish the official acts, nor let international observers be present in the elections. There was heavy repression on elections day as well, plus some offices not letting people vote.
Is it really a dictatorship?
Well they elected a president the West doesn’t like, so yes.
Absolutely, yes.
Wasn’t their current president a bus driver who rose up through politics? I had seen a mention of that in some online discussion.
Also, that the USAmerican govt has issues with Venezuela nationalising their oil and acting as a competitor to the petro-dolla system
So would they just be a adversary country, which may likely be conservative, rather than a dictatorial one?
Bus drivers can be dictators as well. It’s less about the person and more about the political situation. In Venezuelas case oppression of the opposition and unfair elections
What revolution really takes is soldier’s that are protecting the system being unwilling to kill when the “rebels” are their family and friends.
If soldiers have love for the people and see common cause more than they fear their leaders then the leader can fall.