We might be getting caught up in the semantics of the word “cause”.
Capitalism sets up a system that puts people in these situations undoubtedly. It also encourages and rewards violent behaviour.
I would like to believe that in a better society, gang violence would significantly decrease. It seems to be driven and encouraged by socioeconomic factors outside of the control of the gang members.
For every person growing up in poor socioeconomic conditions who makes the conscious choice to become a gang member, there are many more who don’t and instead decide to lift their communities.
We can’t use living under capitalism as an excuse to act anti-socially. We must hold individuals accountable for their individual actions. We must practice mutual aid RIGHT NOW if we have any hope of a future. Political / economic system aside.
No idea has ever forced someone’s hand to pull a trigger or evict a single mother. Every single bad thing that is done comes down to an individual making a decision to harm another. It’s always possible to choose not to harm.
Capitalism is a mind virus that leads to very real harm, but it in and of itself does not directly cause that harm. Capitalism encourages but does not force people to be bad. In this same way socialism encourages but does not force someone to be good.
It’s simply not possible to make a logical argument that capitalism “causes” suffering without admitting that political ideology can in and of itself be a cause for anything. To admit that capitalism “causes” suffering all on its own is to admit that socialism can also “cause” suffering as well. I’m not willing to admit that there is any inherent death toll associated with building a better world for our children (aside of course from the bloody reality of revolution itself).
That being said, even in a society where everyone’s core needs are met we still see bad actors.
Bees are a communal insect. A macro-organism that practices mutual aid. Even in a hive where the bees have everything they could possibly want, there are still some bees that don’t share, who don’t practice mutual aid. They choose instead to steal from their own hive or other hives. These bees are swiftly kicked out of the group or often killed.
We have seen that the ideals of communism and socialism, Marxist thought in general, can be used to shield bad actors from their truly anti-social actions. We cannot allow or condone this.
When we put so much faith in a political system, we often lose sight of the fact that we must hold individuals accountable for their choices regardless of their purported political ideologies. We lose sight of the fact that mutual aid is the only way forward as a species and that saying the right words can not replace taking the right action.
A killer is a killer and a thief is a thief. Anti-social behaviour is the core problem and until we address that, any attempt at a better wold with surely fail.
i understand your point of view but i just disagree. those individual decisions are all made in the context of capitalism and the conditions it creates. thats what fuels those decisions. just because two people come from the same socioeconomic background make different life choices it doesnt mean capitalism isnt to be blamed at the end of the day for the one who becomes involved in gang activity. it also overlooks that while their socioeconomic background may be similar nobody comes from the same exact circumstances
when i was a teenager my family was homeless for a few years. in and out of hotels, even living in a mosque at a time. nobody would give me a job. when i tell them i have no permanent phone number, no address, nobody would hire me. to make money i stole shit from walmart and sold it on craigslist. this eventually lead to my arrest. people can look at that in a vacuum and say i made my choices, and im not saying i didnt, but its not the choice i wanted to be making. it was the last choice i could make and i dont know how much of a choice i really had otherwise. you need money. no one will hire you. what do you do? i deeply sympathize with the people who end up living the gang life. while they may put out an image that says they’re tough and this and that, those are people who live with a lot of pain and suffering and they were pushed to that point by their conditions
im also not sure how saying capitalism causes suffering must necessarily mean socialism can cause suffering. that makes no sense to me. the basic premise of capitalism is exploitation. this is not the case for socialism.
suffering for capitalists? they deserve to suffer and their suffering under socialism is only a product of their entitlement so fuck em lol
it causes it too tho. even down on a smaller scale. gang killings for example are a product of capitalism. those count toward the death toll.
We might be getting caught up in the semantics of the word “cause”.
Capitalism sets up a system that puts people in these situations undoubtedly. It also encourages and rewards violent behaviour.
I would like to believe that in a better society, gang violence would significantly decrease. It seems to be driven and encouraged by socioeconomic factors outside of the control of the gang members.
For every person growing up in poor socioeconomic conditions who makes the conscious choice to become a gang member, there are many more who don’t and instead decide to lift their communities.
We can’t use living under capitalism as an excuse to act anti-socially. We must hold individuals accountable for their individual actions. We must practice mutual aid RIGHT NOW if we have any hope of a future. Political / economic system aside.
No idea has ever forced someone’s hand to pull a trigger or evict a single mother. Every single bad thing that is done comes down to an individual making a decision to harm another. It’s always possible to choose not to harm.
Capitalism is a mind virus that leads to very real harm, but it in and of itself does not directly cause that harm. Capitalism encourages but does not force people to be bad. In this same way socialism encourages but does not force someone to be good.
It’s simply not possible to make a logical argument that capitalism “causes” suffering without admitting that political ideology can in and of itself be a cause for anything. To admit that capitalism “causes” suffering all on its own is to admit that socialism can also “cause” suffering as well. I’m not willing to admit that there is any inherent death toll associated with building a better world for our children (aside of course from the bloody reality of revolution itself).
That being said, even in a society where everyone’s core needs are met we still see bad actors.
Bees are a communal insect. A macro-organism that practices mutual aid. Even in a hive where the bees have everything they could possibly want, there are still some bees that don’t share, who don’t practice mutual aid. They choose instead to steal from their own hive or other hives. These bees are swiftly kicked out of the group or often killed.
We have seen that the ideals of communism and socialism, Marxist thought in general, can be used to shield bad actors from their truly anti-social actions. We cannot allow or condone this.
When we put so much faith in a political system, we often lose sight of the fact that we must hold individuals accountable for their choices regardless of their purported political ideologies. We lose sight of the fact that mutual aid is the only way forward as a species and that saying the right words can not replace taking the right action.
A killer is a killer and a thief is a thief. Anti-social behaviour is the core problem and until we address that, any attempt at a better wold with surely fail.
i understand your point of view but i just disagree. those individual decisions are all made in the context of capitalism and the conditions it creates. thats what fuels those decisions. just because two people come from the same socioeconomic background make different life choices it doesnt mean capitalism isnt to be blamed at the end of the day for the one who becomes involved in gang activity. it also overlooks that while their socioeconomic background may be similar nobody comes from the same exact circumstances
when i was a teenager my family was homeless for a few years. in and out of hotels, even living in a mosque at a time. nobody would give me a job. when i tell them i have no permanent phone number, no address, nobody would hire me. to make money i stole shit from walmart and sold it on craigslist. this eventually lead to my arrest. people can look at that in a vacuum and say i made my choices, and im not saying i didnt, but its not the choice i wanted to be making. it was the last choice i could make and i dont know how much of a choice i really had otherwise. you need money. no one will hire you. what do you do? i deeply sympathize with the people who end up living the gang life. while they may put out an image that says they’re tough and this and that, those are people who live with a lot of pain and suffering and they were pushed to that point by their conditions
im also not sure how saying capitalism causes suffering must necessarily mean socialism can cause suffering. that makes no sense to me. the basic premise of capitalism is exploitation. this is not the case for socialism.
suffering for capitalists? they deserve to suffer and their suffering under socialism is only a product of their entitlement so fuck em lol