• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    The famine of the 1930s was caused by weather conditions and made worse by mismanagement particularly of the Ukrainian communists, who hid how bad the famine was getting from the politburo, delaying aid. Further, the overwhelming majority of those executed during the purges were convicted of crimes such as sexual assault, murder, or were Tsarists, former white army soldiers, Nazis, etc. Opportunists were expelled from the party but not really executed.

    • cub Gucci@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      I wonder how famine in Kazakhstan was caused by Ukrainian communists as well.

      Holodomor was high stake politburo mistake, most likely unintentional. It was a mistake of planning as the 1931’s yield was extrapolated to 32 and 33 years.

      You can’t blame systematic problems like this on individuals in regions. If you are to defend Stalin’s regime, you’ll never learn from it.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        The famine of the 1930s was caused by weather conditions

        I opened directly with the cause of the famine, weather conditions and disaster. Mismanagement played a part everywhere, but management also alleviated issues. The Ukrainian comminists hiding how bad the famine was getting weren’t the only problems.

        Just like you can’t blame widerange problems purely on individuals, you also can’t blame individuals for problems like the weather or for mismanagement at different levels, Stalin did not cause the famine. I defend socialism because socialism helped end food insecurity, outside of wartime the 1930s famine was the last major famine in soviet history thanks to the collectivization of agriculture.

        • cub Gucci@lemmy.today
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          2 days ago

          can’t blame individuals for problems like the weather or for mismanagement at different levels

          Well you can? Why have then

          the 1930s famine was the last major famine in soviet history

          If these very problems could be solved with proper management?

          The famine, which you refuse to call holodomor, was a challenge that highlighted the price of a mistake in the Soviet union.

          Yes, clap-clap, the famine was the last one, that was a huge achievement of the soviets.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            Why would you blame individuals for the weather? Is Stalin supposed to be Zeus? You can blame individuals for their mismanagement, but you seem to be attributing problems with other people specifically to Stalin, or attributing problems with management to socialism in general. It’s faulty.

            Secondly, no, the 1930s famine could not have been prevented by excellent management, it was largely caused by weather disasters. Perfect hindsight may have helped, but that would have meant collectivizing even earlier so as to develop industrial agriculture that could withstand weather fluctuations. In a region where famine was common and regular pre-socialism, ending famine is an achievement. That’s a major force for why life expectancy doubled from pre-socialism, along with safety nets like free healthcare.

            Finally, I don’t call it holodomor because holodomor is the debunked idea that it was an intentional genocide, a stance that isn’t really relevant outside of far-right anti-communists.