I’m a cis male and I believe in the importance of feminism, but I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences as if I was part of the Me Too movement. In some binary sense given how hateful and shitty men can be I’m absolutely a feminist, but I wouldn’t declare myself to be one. What is your standpoint?
I tend to be fairly sensitive, and I haven’t been very successful in quieting my own kneejerk defensiveness when “yes all men” and “male tears” come out. A lot of feminists are justifiably angry but I don’t have to stay in a room where I don’t feel welcome.
So I tend not to label myself a feminist even though I agree with feminists on most things. I vote for feminist candidates, I’ll defend feminism when people tell lies about it, but I can’t be a feminist myself because I can’t participate in it.
yeah it’s useful to call yourself a feminist and it doesn’t cost much. you might be overthinking this, do not deprive yourself of future interactions with people who share your values
Yes, because I view it as part of being a socialist. Uniting the working class means uniting ALL of the working class, and we can only do that through mutual respect and acknowledging and trying to remedy existing biases.
Unfortunately liberal feminism co-opted the movement at the mainstream level and has used it to legitimize the status quo. The fact that there are TERFs or people who call themselves feminists but support capitalism, which impoverishes women, and imperialism, which kills women around the world is insane. It clearly shows that those people don’t actually understand or care about bigotry. At best they want to make their own lives better and at worst they use it as cover to justify those things.
So yeah. I’m more than happy to associate myself with anyone willing to fight for equality, not so much girlboss “feminists.”
EDIT: Also on a personal level, I think something people misunderstand about feminism is that it’s not JUST for women. Men are also hurt by the patriarchy. The flip-side of the societal expectations for women to be passive, emotional, and attractive homemakers is for men to have the pressure of working outside the home, exposing themselves to violence in wars, suppressing emotions and self expression because those are associated with being feminine and if women are lesser, then that also makes them lesser, hence transphobia and less extreme versions of gender policing.
Feminism is good for men too. It’s good for trans people. It’s good for non-binary people. It’s good for anyone who doesn’t fit the rigid expectations society has burdened them with since birth. Even if you consider yourself to be a heterosexual cis man, do you never feel stifled by people not taking your emotions seriously or looking down on you for having them? Do you not wish that you could stay home and see your kids more?
Even for purely selfish reasons men should want to be feminists.
I grew up being taught feminism is about equality between men and women. It’s not about one sex being dominant over the other. In that sense, yes, I’m a feminist. But unfortunately, I later learned in life that feminism and gender equality is taught differently in different places, or not at all. Feminism has morphed in the minds of many that it’s about women getting privilege.
You mean the propaganda against feminism, worked on you?
Where did I say I am against feminism? Did you miss basic comprehension in preschool?
Yeah, I consider myself to be a feminist.
Of course you’re a feminist, you have feminist beliefs.
Yes. Though there are men who just wear the word as a label without changing their behaviour, it’s up to men to set a positive example of how we should treat women and each other.
I was raised with Gloria Steinem’s definition of feminism shaping my understanding, and have called myself a feminist since I was a child:
“A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men.”
A more modern and inclusive version of that same idea, adopted by UN Women:
“Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender, should have equal rights and opportunities.”
Feminism is a very complex grouping of movements and ideologies, but I think “membership” within them is very simple: if you believe in equality regardless of gender, you’re a feminist.
How does it feel that the person who defined feminism for you was a CIA agent?
Not great!
Are you implying that feminism is a CIA initiative?
Steinem worked with the CIA to promote reactionary propaganda and helped direct the women’s liberation movement into a corporate-friendly, anti-socialist direction.
Source: Jacobin
They didn’t imply feminism is a CIA initiative, but the CIA definitely worked with her to influence the feminist movement.
Sure, because they cared about controlling the direction of the political movement, same way they influenced the Civil Rights movement. But once again, unless they are implying that the definition of feminism as offered by Steinem, quoted above, is part of a CIA influence op, or tainted by their influence, then what’s the point of bringing that up?
To have a conversation? To get further insight into how a person thinks? To gain understanding? To talk about the ideological framework through which the person views the world, and hopefully gain some perspective out of that talk?
If they truly intended it to be a neutral question, then they used a particularly bad choice of phrasing.
Most people understand the CIA is a tool of imperialist violence/authority, but framing that as “how does it feel to x” is clearly a condemnation of the association being pointed out, which in this case would only matter if that association itself in some way taints the topic it was brought up in response to… I.e. the definition of feminism by Steinem.
Fair point.
This raises the question whether feminist is the right word for those definitions. Humanist, maybe?
I’m not trying to “all lives matter” the situation – the history of the treatment of women warrants specific advocacy. But I think of a feminist as someone who (regardless of gender) is actively an advocate for change, not just someone who believes in equality.
That’s the connotation I have for the word anyway. Clearly UN Women are a more authoritative source, and they specifically use the word “belief,” so my connotation seems to be wrong.
What’s different to me is it’s feminism not femalism, in that feminine doesn’t tend to mean women specifically. I would actually argue it’s mostly used as a modifier of explicit non-women, and is, in a roundabout way, directly about men and anything unassociated with women as well.
As if to say “this isn’t about women, it’s about the opposition to non-manliness that exists in the world”.
Like a white person is not black, but a man can be feminine. That’s not to say black issues aren’t pertinent to white people in a similar way (if one of us is not free, none are free, nonblack people demeaned for cultural blackness, etc), but it’s an identity that can be wholely intrinsic to a man.
Oh, and another point you bring up I think is interesting is the distinction between holding the belief and directly or strongly acting on it, and should we consider a believer or passive actor as non-ideological? I think that comes down to a No True Scotsman sort of mindset.
Kind of rambling and pedantic, but I like to think about the little details.
Edit: Actually, the more I think about it, the more it kind of is the same as BLM, and I think even just holding the belief is important.
Yes, absolutely.
You don’t have to understand a woman’s experience so much as you have to not be a dick when she tells you her experience.
Look at all the men that got butthurt over “bear vs rando man” and I’m gonna be honest, I’d choose the bear over many of them too. They refused to listen to what was actually being said by that statement.
Hit the nail on the head. Being cis white het doesn’t make you automatically the enemy. Your actions do.
There are dozens of us!
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Seriously though when I hear reactionaries complain about the different movements condemning the white patriarchy, all I can think is “oh you thought they were mad at you? Well I guess they were right to be”. It’s really not that hard to recognize the injustice and violence inflicted in the past and to try to stop it from continuing. And most importantly it’s not hard to know when to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen
That’s a lot of buzzwords to agree with me.
Yes, I’m a cis man and I am a Marxist feminist. Feminism is not exclusionary to cis men, and Marxist feminism is critical as patriarchy is a secondary contradiction that rests upon the primary contradiction of class society. Attacking sexism attacks capitalism, and attacking capitalism attacks sexism. They are connected.
Thanks for saying this. There was a rather popular unpopular opinion a while ago about how the only struggle should be the class struggle, and feminism was getting in the way. People need to see that they’re both part of the same fight.
That is a vulgar materialist conception, from those who do not grasp dialectical materialism, as well as those who reject it deliberately. Class reductionism doesn’t recognize secondary contradictions that rest upon the base of primary contradictions, seeing each as separate and butchering how contradiction actually works as an engine of change in dialectics.
Highly recommend reading Domenico Losurdo - Class struggle for more on this.
It gets into how there’s not just a single class struggle, i.e. working class versus bourgeoisie, but many different and related class struggles. Both Marx and Engels held this multivariate view of class struggle too, and it was only later that chauvinists, anti-feminists, and imperialists restricted its meaning to the workplace only.
I had professors ask us to raise our hands if we’re a feminist, and usually every young man did. This was in the Obama administration, before the right became so fascist, but still. We don’t expect you to have an equally deep understanding or to be familiar with academic feminist works. We just expect you to believe women are equally valuable individuals, who have the right to pursue their own happiness, live their lives how they want to live them, and be supported by their community in their health, wellbeing, and pursuits.
Yes 100% bc the literal definition of feminism is the equal treatment for all genders. I don’t go around just telling people that. They can probably just tell I am bc I’m not shitty to a specific gender…
Of course I would and I do. I find the arguments that there are many branches of feminism to be a reason to not consider yourself a feminist to be kind of ridiculous. There are multiple branches of everything. Not all anarchists agree, not all socialists agree, not all communists agree. No group is a monolith with perfectly aligned values and thoughts.
I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences
Being a woman is the only thing that gives someone access to women’s experiences, but being a woman doesn’t automatically make someone a feminist. Neither thing presumes the other.
The phrase I use as a male is “I emphasize with feminists” it puts them in the drivers seat but I’m there to support them.
Yes. Even in the most cynical light, standing with women is within my own self interest because my rights will surely erode alongside theirs. But also i like women and am disgusted with how they are treated socially and economically, and want that to change for the better. So a feminist i am.
