t’s certainly been a journey for Valve. A week prior to the Steam Frame’s launch, we spoke with two engineers at Valve about the project: Joy Lyons, hardware engineer, and Jeremy Selan, software engineer. The memory crisis and the price were a big part of that conversation. From that chat, we can confirm that Valve had aimed for a lower price point than the one it’s launching the Frame for today.
Here’s Lyons on the memory crisis:
“We set out to design this hardware with one particular price in mind, but we’ve made choices to make sure that we’re making a product that is choiceful, that people can purchase, they can upgrade with different features later. But we wanted to make sure we had a base product with really great performance. Then that price target shifted due to the ongoing RAM crisis around the world.”
Lyons also said that forecasting for the cost of certain components used in the Steam Frame is an ongoing challenge.
Not exactly boding well of the Steam Deck 2.
That’s just wholly incorrect.
Can you run Linux on your cellphone, can you run Linux on the Raspberry Pi 5? No, you have to use the manufacturer’s closed source OS (forked from Linux). Some manufacturers release their source code, but a lot of them don’t.
Here’s a blog explaining how you can’t run vanilla Linux on a raspberry pi and the extremely complicated way to use the open source raspi code to compile your own kernel:
https://blog.bktus.com/en/archives/czh2is/
Yes, I can. Manufacturers literally CAN NOT closed-source fork the kernel, because of its licensing. They HAVE to release the exact kernel sources used for the device.
You can also run fully open Linux on your Pi5. There will be some firmware blobs, but then again so will any x86 board.
Oh, and smartphones run ANDROID. Not just Linux, but a completely separate layer on top of it that is much different from the traditional desktop environments. Android isn’t Linux, it runs on top of the Linux kernel. Sure manufacturers don’t release their Android source, because they don’t have to, but equating Android with Linux is idiotic.
You seem to have a very… loose grasp as to what is considered open source and what “Linux” is.
Here’s a quick bootcamp: any fork of the Linux kernel is still Linux. Does the RasPi5 require a custom kernel? Yes. Does that make it any less open? No. Does that make it any less Linux? Also no.
The kernel sources for Raspberry Pi boards are readily available. No request for access needed. You can clone the repo any time. That is open source.
Samsung, Google, Motorola, Xiaomi, OnePlus, Nothing, etc. all either provide open repos for kernel sources, or provide them upon request (as per the GPLv2 license of the kernel). That’s still open source. And just because each phone manufacturer - as well as each SoC manufacturer - had to make changes that aren’t in mainline, doesn’t make that any less open or any less Linux.
In fact Google has been pioneering a way to get better kernel baseline support via GKIs, and manufacturer support for a lot of boards and SoCs have been introduced in the mainline kernel.
But the thing is that ARM is progressing fast, with quite a few SoC/core manufacturers on the market (Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung, HiSilicon/Huawei, MediaTek, Amlogic, Allwinner, Broadcom, Rockchip, NXP, UNISOC, and so on), whereas X86 has two manufacturers who do end to end development in-house, and at a slower pace (usually one class of CPUs announced a year). The thing is, mainline WILL pay behind because ARM just progresses so fast that reviewing all the changes to add a new SoC to the supported list cannot happen overnight. That’s why forks exist.
But, I repeat, that fork makes it no less Linux nor any less open source.
Legally aren’t allowed to, may not care anyway. Chinese legal system doesn’t enforce this.
The big ones obey, because they have international presence. From what I’ve heard, the small ones will provide it on request, since chances are they have no financial reason not to anyway.
Yep.
A decade or so ago it used to be that GPL source requests/demands were an uphill battle. You had to beg, threaten legal action, for months to get somewhere.
Nowadays most manufacturers recognise that open sourcing actually helps them because people will create custom ROMs, or do the kernel upbring for newer versions the ODM refused to, so now with 0 work you have a new BSP and can push updates faster.
Yes and the small, shitty ones that only sell on AliExpress don’t and because Device Tree is a terrible concept, you still need to get distributions with explicit adaptations to each specific device.
That’s what I addressed, my understanding is if you contact them and ask nicely they generally do, since they have no incentive to keep it private.
Wtf? The vast majority of phones do run Linux, and most of the rest (iPhones) run UNIX. And since when is raspberry pi 5 not Linux?
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Lots of distros “aren’t the same”, but android runs the Linux kernel at its core.
Whether you like it or not, it’s Linux
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Someone is making a real fool of themselves here, amirite?
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The ability to run GTK apps maketh not what Linux is…
I’m taking a very narrow definition of Linux here to say that a manufacturer shipping you a disk image with a precompiled version of Linux (that is closed source) is not proper linux.
If Linus Torvalds and co can’t make your computer run, then its not a good computing experience.
Darwin != Linux, either.
Darwin is UNIX. And anyone who knows what they’re talking about wouldn’t confuse the two.
lol
the person I replied to mentioned Unix for some reason
Keep explaining how ignorant you are. It’s fun for the rest of us, lol.
I can absolutely build the Linux kernel for arm from source for the raspberry pi. Whether it is using the open source raspberry pi fork or mainline. I can put any of at least a dozen fully open distros on it. Etc.
Maybe there’s some devices/manufacturers doing this and that’s what you’re thinking of, but your core argument here is 100% wrong.
some devices = virtually every android phone.
I would probably me more inclined to listen to anything you say if you also acknowledged your mistakes
I’m not trying to convince anyone, I’m just tired of people simping for ARM like its better than x86. Apple and Qualcomm are not going to make gaming better!
Ok but it’s weird that you aren’t acknowledging the things you were fundamentally wrong about, and were making a really big deal about
Not sure how you can draw conclusions like that with big misunderstandings
Also, Android is linux, lol. Just because some phone models don’t allow you the freedom to build-from-source doesn’t change any of that.
The goalposts were that x86 is more open source friendly than ARM
Ahahahahahah! No, no no no. None of that is true. Nor has it ever been true
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Have you ever tried stand-up comedy? I think you might be quite good at it— in the Trump-idiot garbage bin circuit
Yes, I am running PostmarketOS on my cellphone. It is called PinePhone.
Yes and also yes. What???
Your phone runs mainline Linux? You dont need to download a closed source binary blob from the vendor?
Does your phone show up on this list?
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
Notice how I dont have to ask this question if somebody owns a normal x86 computer.
Yes, you do have to ask that question, dummy.
Just look at every single newer generation x86 CPU. Until direct support is added in the kernel (which usually happens early on because Intel and AMD use a singular architecture for each generation so support is easy), shit’s so broken it won’t even boot.
Except, you know, the CPU microcode package, the GPU drivers, the WiFi, Bluetooth, etc. firmware (via the linux-firmware package), and the list goes on.
Buddy, we’ve already established that your knowledge of Linux et al is surface level at best, why are you still digging your own grave with verificably incorrect/incomplete statements that literally move the goalposts of this debate every time you reply?
the goalposts were that x86 is more open source friendly than ARM. Intel and AND work on mainline Linux because they actually submit their patches to mainline and make sure that they get accepted. Sure, there’s firmware, but the code to use that firmware is open source and widely used. The worst you see is maybe SoC drivers for webcams.
Compare that to ARM, where the majority of vendors dont provide source code for their kernels, and when they do boot with mainline Linux, half the shit is broken because of device trees or undocumented peripherals.
I wouldn’t want to buy an ARM computer.
Troll harder bud.
OK go fanboy for Qualcomm bud
Yes and yes. In fact, I currently do both of those.
OK cool, how much is broken when you use a mainline kernel, like the one I use on a normal x86 laptop?
Nothing. Also, why do you keep changing the requirements? First it was “you can’t run Linux”, then it became “you can’t run a mainline kernel”.
That was implied when I said vanilla Linux. Sorry for not breaking out the technical lingo in a PC gaming thread.
Even DietPi where you can install it to pretty much everything? Even x86. Even armv6.
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The drivers are also open source, genius.