“I’ve never seen anything burn so quick,” said Almanza, 42, recounting the first day of the Eaton fire near Pasadena, California. “Our captains have to make the hard decisions: get yourselves killed or let the house burn.” His eyes welled up recounting the properties devoured as his crew had no choice but to retreat: “I was just so sad and emotional, because there was nothing we could do.”
Almanza is one of thousands of first responders who have put their lives on the line battling the historic windstorm-fueled fires that have ravaged LA.
Almanza is incarcerated and currently serving a state prison sentence, making up to $10.24 in daily wages fighting the wildfires, with $1 hourly bonuses while on the frontlines. Since last week, the California department of corrections and rehabilitation (CDCR) has deployed more than 1,100 incarcerated firefighters to the LA infernos, which have become some of the deadliest and most destructive in the region’s history.
I’m for the programs but against the execution.
Require these posititons to be licensed. Help the inmates get qualified to pass any and all exams. With good behavior and a set amount of time left, allow them to take the exams. This helps with future fire fighting and gives them a career once out. With a good prospect once out, they are less likely to recidivism.
Oil companies, who are the reason these fires are as bad as they are, buy a one million dollar house for each enslaved firefighter in exchange for their service.
10.24 a day and a sense of pride and accomplishment? So generous!
Now they can afford that Darth Vader lootbox.
america loves slaves. and just like north korea the citizens have been indoctrinated for so long even the slaves take pride. what times to be alive.
Everyone has pride, silly
Even corporations! I see those profile pictures during pride month.
Meta definitely stands with the LGBT+ community!
pride not Pride
I hope they get a huge fucking settlement when the get mesothelioma or whatever bullshit they breathe in. This is inhumane.
The ones that haven’t done anything serious will get shorter sentences…right?
We have like minutes left. Biden should pardon them.
Californians should be fucking embarrassed that they’re exploiting the incarcerated population so fucking thoroughly.
Everyone’s always quick to attack Cali for literally anything.
The firefighter / emergency reponder program is a volunteer position. Prisoners are not forced to join. They willingly joined, learned about the job, and are expected to help out when needed.
Everyone likes to complain about this as forced slavery, but this is one of the better programs inmates can volunteer in. They get experience, rehabilitation, and work towards emergency certificates that they can then use to get hired once they are released.
The other states have no comparable rehabilitation program. They’ll gladly throw you out to the streets with a criminal record and let you suffer because a criminal record reduces your chance of getting a job by a significant amount.
Are there plenty of issues with the program still? Yes. There’s long, grueling hours that comes with the nature of emergency response, bad pay, and a multitude of other issues, but a lot of it ties with how the prison system works and will take a lot of reform to set things right. I’m confident in Cali working towards those things though. This state has always been working for the people, even if it’s a slow and tedious process.
And for those who actually care, you can read more about the program here:
https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/facility-locator/conservation-camps/faq-conservation-fire-camp-program/
“It’s one of the better forced labor systems in our over-incarcerated racist system”
-A true hero for the downtrodden, baguette
cool motive, still slavery
Literally in my first paragraph I said it was a volunteer program
If you want to argue about forced inmate labor being the modern day slavery sure but that’s not related to this program at all
If prisons can rent out prisoners it creates a reason for prisons to have a lot of prisoners.
This by itself sets a dangerous precedent because they can just lobby against the people. Anti drug laws get them a lot of manpower so you’ll see a lot of that. Literally lobbying for anything that gets more people in jail is a win for them.
This is already a motive for states/municipalities to try to have federal prisons built in their borders. The inmates get counted in the census and their numbers are used to determine appropriations, and they don’t vote so you don’t even have to pretend to care about them!
It should be an embarrassment that you’re letting people fight the fires threatening your homes and paying them literal peanuts. Other areas do similar shit and should also be embarrassed but that doesn’t lessen the embarrassment that Californians should feel.
People are losing their fucking homes and these folks are fighting to keep them standing while being paid peanuts.
Yall should be fighting to make sure they get fair compensation even if that’s not wholly available to them until after they’ve been released/granted probation.
I’ve already stated that I think this volunteer position should have better benefits and pay. Despite that, I will stand behind this program being a step towards the right direction. This program is far from exploitation. It’s not an embarrassment, and one of the few rehabilitation programs that actually attempts to help inmates get back on their feet after prison.
If you really think other states do any similar programs you’re grossly mistaken. Except for a couple other blue states, the other states imprison people in for profit prisons, so they can lease forced labor for pennies. There’s no comparable program in the states, and if you find a problem with the pay, you should be looking at literally everywhere else in the states that uses inmates for farm labor because those states refuse to pay people proper wages. Not to mention the fact that those are involuntary labor.
I’d clarify - I don’t wish this program didn’t exist I just think the monetary compensation is an embarrassment. I’d much prefer to see these volunteers more properly compensated to set them up for post incarceration life.
That’s reasonable. It’ll take a long time, they’ll have to dismantle and rebuild almost the entirety of the prison system, but that’s a goal we should be working for.
Has no one explained to you how a volunteer system works? If not, let me help…
It means…… it’s optional
They just voted to keep it non-volunteer…three months ago. Less, actually. So why don’t you stop harassing people.
How exactly is it harassing people to explain what voluntary means? And as far as I can see- they’re still voluntary.
Look dude, just because I’m pointing out that it is in fact, voluntary- that doesn’t mean I support it. I just favor empirical truth over emotional reaction and manufacturing outrage.
And if it turns out that I’m wrong, then I’ll be wrong. I’m not going to argue about it. So why don’t you stop harassing people?
“Voluntary” and voluntary are different. If you want to be educated on the difference because you just don’t quite get it, I’m confident you can get into San Quentin.
And opinion and fact are also different. If you want to go find out for yourself and come back with proof, I’ll be happy to change my stance on the subject.
Until then, you’re offering nothing more that assumptions and opinions and posing them as factual evidence.
Rookie mistake, but forgiven.
Not arguing this anymore, so go ahead and have that coveted last word!
‘May I just add, Mr Lipwig, that behind you there is a door. If at any time in this interview you feel you wish to leave, you have only to step through it and you will never hear from me again.’
Moist filed that under ‘deeply suspicious’.
[…]
Moist looked at him. ‘Excuse me,’ he said, standing up, ‘I’d just like to check something.’
There were two men dressed in black standing behind his chair. It wasn’t a particularly neat black, more the black worn by people who just don’t want little marks to show. They looked like clerks, until you met their eyes. They stood aside as Moist walked towards the door which, as promised, was indeed there. He opened it very carefully. There was nothing beyond, and that included a floor. In the manner of one who is going to try all possibilities, he took the remnant of spoon out of his pocket and let it drop. It was quite a long time before he heard the jingle.
Then he went back and sat in the chair.
‘The prospect of freedom?’ he said.
‘Exactly,’ said Lord Vetinari. ‘There is always a choice.’
‘You mean . . . I could choose certain death?’
‘A choice, nevertheless,’ said Vetinari.
Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Technically speaking it is illegal for prisoners to be coerced into labor in the US - but it’s often strongly encouraged.
So…. Your evidence to the contrary is…. Fiction?
Well played. I guess I learned my lesson here.
/s
Oh no - it’s just that voluntary isn’t always a fully free choice. The passage above is a demonstration of a choice being offered that technically allows freedom but strongly encourages one choice. I used it instead of writing up a comment like this because it was more fun.
And you can’t know for sure exactly how things work in voluntary prison work, yet assume to know. What you’re doing is basing your entire argument on an assumption derived from the logic of a “fun” quote from a book.
There is no evidence to support your assumption. And there is no evidence needed to support mine, as the burden lies ion you to prove I’m wrong. I’ll need something more substantial than fiction.
Just wondering if you’ve spent any time in one of the 16 American prisons that “encourages” prisoners to fight forest fires?
Because if not then you don’t know how it works either, and should probably sit down.
Great. Then it’s established that neither of us have a dog in this race and know nothing about how it works enough to complain about or defend it- so maybe we should both admit we don’t know enough to opine on it.
(which was my plan all along)
The state of prison labor is a disgrace. That said, the incarcerated firefighters I worked with in 2010to 2019 anecdotally wanted to be there, and specifically elected for the role.
It is my understanding that prisoners can be compelled to do labor, but cannot be forced to accept a hazard position.
Again anecdotally, everyone I chatted with saw the fire crew as a way out: (out of the cell for x days per year, out of the system by building skills, etc).
What I will acknowledge is that it is a dangerous role and they are not compensated sufficiently/ fairly, but many non incarcerated firefighters are paid comically poorly too.
I also anecdotally acknowledge that most assignments are NOT as dangerous/ long running, and in my experience incarcerated crews got mop-up/more routine assignments. The current increased danger may exacerbate their displeasure with this conditions.
I am not condoning anyone being in harms way against their will, and if these folks want out, they should be provided safe transport back to the jail without delay.
It is my understanding that prisoners can be compelled to do labor, but cannot be forced to accept a hazard position.
Only in 16 states can prisoners still be compelled to do labor. Unfortunately, Cali is one of them.
It’s well known inside that firefighter duty has more freedoms, WAY better food, and that pay rate is miles above anything else you can get while inside. That’s not to say these aren’t brave people risking their lives, but it is definitely a sought after position for it’s many perks.
Also they can get their convictions expunged by working fire crew.
In my opinion/experience, agree. As long as they can say “I’ve had enough, I want out, back to my cell”
I mean volunteering to work as a firefighter while you’re in jail sounds like a cool idea. If i was in jail with nowhere else to go I would do it, and plus you get more money as a prisoner than a McDonalds employee 🫠
This is California, he’s paid below min wage (edit I misread as per hour, which is also below min wage)
How much does a McDonald’s employee make in a day, anyways? $10?
$10.24 per day is not more than McDonalds pays.
Another cool idea is to not die.
