First term a lot of people considered leaving but frankly it didn’t feel like this.
Mods: I am unsure if this question goes against rule 2 or not. I mean to ask this as the general situation but of course it is political. The wording of the rule makes it unclear if politics are allowed or not…
Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
Half of my friend’s family is gone and ICE is inching toward gestapo territory. It’s pretty bad
I’m not sure ‘inching’ is the right word here. ‘Speedrunning’ might be more suitable
Were they legal? No judgement from me either way, but if they were make sure you include it when you tell people. I have some folks I am scared for and everybody’s argument to me has been “They’re only taking felons” or “they’re only taking illegals”
I don’t think so. So if you see them take somebody who has papers tell everybody.
The issue isn’t whether or not their documented or felons, it’s that they didn’t have a trial so they didn’t have a chance to prove either way
Illegalish, no criminal history, quite possibly the kindest folks you’ll ever meet, formerly on track for citizenship until trump. What really got us was how quiet it was. Just gone one day. No lawyer, no calls. They simply ceased to exist for a time
I hope never to have to report deportation of a legal citizen or resident, but I will.
They might not know all the details. Even between people who’ve known each other for a long time it’s not common to know their precise legal status, and that goes double for family/friends of a friend.
there’s no such thing as an illegal human being.
No but there is such thing as being an illegal resident.
You’re either going through all the correct legal channels to become a legal US resident, or you aren’t.
I 100% agree the entire situation is sickening.
If you want to know where it is going in the short-term, have a look at Orban’s Hungary. Rightwing populist voted in and then got to work at dismantling the state. Control judges appointments, curb the power of the judicial branch, silence critical media, pick a group to scapegoat, buddy of Putin. The list goes on. Democracy only works if people defend it and from my outside POV there aren’t enough people doing that just yet. It’s worse in Trump 2.0 because this time he came prepared.
There are already horror stories about people being caught up wrongly in the deportation efforts. That’s using very mild language for very traumatic events here. It’s come to a point where erstwhile allies of the US are advising their citizens not to travel to the US. Because they have lost faith in the rule of law there. Take a minute to let that sink in.
If you’re a US citizen, resist. The free state is under threat. If you’re an immigrant, be careful.
horror stories about people being caught up wrongly in the deportation
You mean people who are caught up rightfully in deportation are treated with dignity, right? Right?
No. The label horror story, sadly, applies to all. I suppose I could have worded it differently, had I expected the least generous interpretation being applied to what I wrote.
I just wanted to stress that the problem is the treatment. People are often ok with treating prisoners badly.
If you’re a US citizen, resist.
Easier said than done. There’s no clear point of leverage for people to lean into. The cops are ruthless. The liberal opposition is toothless and lame. People don’t really trust one another. There’s a strong attitude of “I’m just going to keep my head down until it blows over”. But we’re not even really in a crisis per-say, just yet. Trump’s a fucking menace, but the economy is strong and we’re not currently at the peak of a pandemic and there’s no hurricane about to decimate a random corner of the Gulf/Atlantic Coast.
I suspect we’ll see more points of galvanized opposition when the winds change. But for now, looks like Americans are going to lay back and think of England.
i’ve made a list of the things that i care most about where i live and are different from the rest of the country and have decided that i need to have my emigrations plans in motion when the first of them is made illegal.
As someone in the process of leaving, get it in motion NOW. Emigrating takes time. This goes for anyone looking who is at the current situation and weighing their options:
Visas and immigration laws aside, there’s a lot that goes into leaving the country. Get all your finances in order, make a plan for how to move your stuff, and think about how long it would take you to trim down literally everything you own to just the essentials. If you have family or pets, this goes for them as well. Start going through your stuff and seeing that you can donate. Get as much stuff packed as you can. Make a bugout bag, fill it with at least 1 week’s worth of clothes and all your essentials (I keep ~3 months of meds in mine). Get a small firesafe and put all your legal paperwork in it. Stockpile your prescriptions if you can. Make sure your car is ready to drive if you’re driving, otherwise have a plan to get rid of it. Withdraw cash in small bills.
You want to be as prepared as possible
i’m had to move 15 times over the last 20 years and it’s taught me to live with only the bare essentials. i also have legal entitlement to my target country so i’m not sweating the paperwork either.
the only things i’m worried about are the regime change the united states is going to impose on my target country and my pets since they’re the most important things in my life.
What sort of things?
everything that has nothing to do with creating a family and moving with them to the suburbs.
Embrace the differences.
Where we moved there are no shops open Sunday and it is soooooo refreshing NOT to have every whim available 24/7.
if only it were so simple as shops on a sunday and they’re making everywhere homogeneous; this and a handful of other cities are the only unique ones.
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A lot of innocent people are being/will be displaced unfortunately. [He] wants to undo everything that his predecessor has achieved. It is never too late to consider leaving.
Biden and Dems pushed hard against immigrants and beefed up ICE.
A lot less than Trump. They allowed more and mostly it is about the legal ones and refugees. You don’t just extend a hand and then retract it when it is convenient. The ones that actually committed crimes, other than coming into the country undocumented, can go.
Edit: I meant it was less people deported at once like this. Over the course of his term is different than all at once, and what about legal residents and those who have/are going through the process. I apologize for the confusion.
Yea, I have been aware. Not necessarily on either side of this equation. But I agree with the fact that it would be more advantageous to grant certain non-offending immigrants citizenship, and have several legal points of entry at the border, with enhanced security so that it is less likely for smuggling to happen (possibly with either more border patrol or an alternative structure) and more migrants are encouraged to enter with a more streamlined and fair process, one that doesn’t leave them worrying about deportation, sans any criminal record or pending charges.
Edit: I am not talking about his first term. I wasn’t fully against either candidate, there were good and bad with both Trump’s first term and Biden’s. It is the entire principle of this type of deportation that is wrong.
I just don’t get going after innocent people
Catching real criminals is hard. Pretending innocent people are criminals is easy.
that reminded me to check how Duterte’s trial is going
To create fear, distrust, confusion, anger, distraction, and validate the base’s hatred of whichever “outgroups” are being blamed for everything. If you fit a profile, they put you in a box. Doesn’t matter if you’re “innocent” or the reason for the government fucking with you or deporting you is a mistake anymore because agencies like ICE and DHS are so deeply compromised as to not follow any rule of law.
This shit happens all throughout human history in dictatorships and fascist states.
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Despite the rhetoric there’s not enough criminals to mass deport.
Because he’s a cunt
There are entire industries that profit from people being imprisoned. The more people incarcerated in a location, the more that location can charge.
All other things aside, there is very much a profit motive.
This is by far the worst term than the first.
- Massive Federal Firings
- Musk openly doing the Nazi Salute
- Trump/Musk claiming ‘domestic terrorism’ over Tesla vandalism and protests
- Trump just left and right, trying to stall, threaten, intimidate and insult judges that ruled against him
- Trump and his cronies ignoring all sorts of federal orders from judges
- Trump attempting to pull the biggest deportation operation seen in history
- Trump actually starting tariff wars with Canada, Mexico and other countries
- Trump and Vance talking down the President of Ukraine
- Trump siding with and favoring Russia/Putin
- Trump and cronies dismantling federal departments
- Trump telling everyone to ‘shut up’ about egg prices
He is just going on a infantile tyrannical rampage on everything that threatens or demeans him. Not the country, not the people, just him. He and his couch-fucking friend Vance and his boytoy Musk.
Oh and people always threaten to leave all of the time when someone they voted for didn’t get office and the opposing side did. Always happens every election. It’s all nothingburgers until people actually do leave.
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I think that credits them with a little bit too much conscious attention. I think they were surprised to even win and kind of bumbled through and were able to retrospect with the look back at that experience and think about what to do once they had a second chance. So I did set up a second term, but I don’t regard that as having been part of a singular intentional plan. Like another commenter in this thread said the dog caught the car in the first term.
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But ultimately I have come to the conclusion that twice is too often to be a coincidence
Wait, who said anything about twice? I think you’re dead on about the second term, I think it was intentional. Just the first term was the dog that caught the car.
Definitely, this does feel like “the empire strikes back” hopefully we have enough people to resist and stand up so we can enjoy the return of the Jedi.
If you have the opportunity and resources to get out, go. Things are only going to get worse.
I hate to break it to you but you can leave the US all you want but unless you get off this planet entirely you will not escape anything.
Fascism is coming for the entire world not just the US. It’s already well in progress as you can see many other countries following suit.
“the entire world”
tbf we had our problems here in brazil, argentina is having theirs, probably chile is going to follow suit. turkey, philippines, indonesia, south korea, just to name a few recent.
Sure, meanwhile Cuba, China, Vietnam, Laos which are moving humanity forward.
Brazil prosecuted Bolsonaro for a coup attempt. Somehow.
And what did Biden say when a fascist whom Biden called fascist arrived at the White House on January 20? “Welcome home”. (?!?)
Is it worse than the first term?
Yes. Trump didn’t think he would win the first time. He had no plan for what do do if he won, so he leaned hard on institutional knowledge of party stalwarts and military people, along with a few trusted insiders from his campaign, but they didn’t know how Washington worked.
This time hard core ideologues from the Heritage foundation were ready. They are tired of democracy and limits on the power of wealth so they are dismantling it with project 2025.
Why are legal people being kicked out?
Trump has only a few actual policies he cares about and one is to stop brown people from imigrating to live in America. This is also a test case of his own power. Because if he can disappear green card holders without due process he can also get rid of citizens that are a threat to his power.
He is getting ready for a night of long knives and a krystalnaght.
When is it time to consider leaving?
Depends. If you are an anti Israel green card holder with a history of organizing college campus protests you should probably pack your bags and make your way to the nearest airport.
If you are a citizen or permanent resident you have to make a judgement about what you are giving up, where you can go, and how likely we are to go full 3rd Reich.
I will say that if we declare war on Canada or Mexico, you should probably make your way to the other one unless you want to stay and fight it out.
They way I explain it is this. Trump’s first presidency, the dog caught the car. No one expected, least of all the dog. They had no plan, no idea what to do with what they had.
This time around, they were ready for the impossible, ready to break as much shit as possible, and they have the knowledge of what happened in the first term to give them context on what worked and what didn’t.
The US is under the impression that it won the Cold War against Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62zm4eqvp7o
In an interview with pro-Trump journalist Tucker Carlson, Witkoff (Trump’s special envoy to Ukraine) praised Vladimir Putin, saying he “liked” the Russian president.
“I don’t regard Putin as a bad guy,” he said. “He’s super smart.”
During the interview, Witkoff repeated various Russian arguments, including that Ukraine was “a false country” and asked when the world would recognise occupied Ukrainian territory as Russian.
Witkoff is leading the US ceasefire negotiations with both Russia and Ukraine but he was unable to name the five regions of Ukraine either annexed or partially occupied by Russian forces.
The quotes you selected suggest the opposite. The US is recognizing that it lost the proxy war against Russia, and it is now willing to accept Russian terms for ending the conflict.
sigh sarcasm and the internet strike again. 🫠
Poe’s law :)
There was no cold war with Russia?
Nazis are taking over. That is what is going on.
Nothing so threatening the Democrats would block it when they had the chance.
How would they “block” it?
By not signing Trumps funding bill
Or running a primary on Biden, or putting pressure to make sure he’d be jailed for his many crimes, or abandoning the campaign policies they knew were unpopular, or a hundred other times where they could have done anything other than use Trump as a fucking stick without the courtesy of a carrot
The time to leave if you’re able to was in his first term.
We got out, no regrets, and we’re not going back.
Any surprises you wish you knew about beforehand that you’d care to share? Any bullshit around financial stuff, filing taxes while abroad, etc?
Banks in the US really don’t want to give you your money. Keep a US phone # (I think Google phone has one which doesn’t kill you in charges) so you can contact them (when and if you transfer money).
You should take a trip first to set up some groundwork, find a trusted lawyer (we have two, one is our accountant, who’s also a lawyer, and another who is our immigration lawyer). They will go over all your paperwork for housing rentals, they should know people who can get your health insurance set up -you probably will need private health care +repatriation insurance until you are a permanent resident. Cost is around €50/per person per month, paid monthly (for us).
Downsize as much as possible, do not put ‘artwork’ on you customs for for import as they will hold up the works. )paperwork, personal clothing, household goods, etc. vague and mundane.
Your first year RENT a place in a town you choose, you will know in that year if that’s where you want to be or not. Our experience was we got a place for summer (3months) then checked out all the towns along the coast and kept coming back to where we settled, so we found a place for a year there, then COVID… then found the place we are in the process of buying.
Walkable city, good infrastructure to travel by bus/train, 2 airports 1hr away in opposite directions. We don’t drive anymore & bike everywhere, and live 500M from the Mediterranean Sea.
So yeah… being by the water is absolutely worth any issues we encountered.
Ballpark of how much your process cost? I’m seeing two lawyers and now I’m wondering how much convenience I can afford. Nothing wrong with convenience either, I’m just poor.
I would say about 20k for the whole move…that’s just a ballpark, and that includes 1 year fam of 4 living without income (rent, etc) because for the first year you cannot make an income on the local economy. I actually needed this year because I was so burned out.
If you can work at home there are nomad visas for the taking… Ireland has a very good program but housing is expensive (there are some work/housing available).
This also wasn’t our first foray out of the US, I left when I was 18, came back for school, etc and then out again with a good offer where I met my partner. Moved back and when we tried to leave again the recession hit and had to hunker down until the timing was right.
Once you are out of the US your money goes further…IMO it has 'more value’s than in the US.
Thanks!
Also…I’ve tried to find the link and will keep looking, but there is a website that links you to people for ‘volunteer work’.
Think: farmers that need seasonal help with sheep shearing, etc, people who need pets sitting…things like that
you get housing and food, 5hrs day/5days a week max. Very safe, was recommended by a woman visiting our town who originally was from Oregon but is now in Ireland (she also recommend a place for work our son is now at).
https://www.workaway.info/en/hostlist
HERE IT IS!
You’re amazing, thank you!
His first term also started with restrictions on legal immigrants. But it’s much, much, much worse this time around.
