• Kokesh@lemmy.worldEnglish
    23·
    5 hours ago

    This will be great for business. If I had Tesla, I would try to get rid of it.

    • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
      2·
      42 minutes ago

      Haha, I saw someone already selling elon salute stickers to put on Teslas. I kind of feel bad for anyone who bought one used or a long time ago.

    • Agent641@lemmy.world
      8·
      7 hours ago

      You can get a box trailer upgrade for the model X that can transport ‘livestock’ on the cheap, called the model X-terminate

  • Texas_Hangover@sh.itjust.works
    450·
    3 hours ago

    Not to mock anybody for freaking out about nothing but… Holding your arm out to the side at a 180° angle is not a Nazi salute.

  • LandedGentry@lemmy.zipEnglish
    1401·
    14 hours ago

    Brave protest. Pretty sure Nazi imagery is illegal in Germany. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong

    • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca
      3951·
      14 hours ago

      Making the German state officially state that this is Nazi imagery would be a worthwhile win lol.

    • Lupus@feddit.org
      62·
      13 hours ago

      There’s plenty of “fair use” cases which would allow it.

      §86a STGB allows for the use of “symbols of anti-constitutional organizations” in cases of:

      • art (e.g. the movie “Downfall”)
      • scientific research
      • education
      • news or other broadcast (covering Nazi Protests in the US for example, German news station don’t have to censor the Swastika flags or the like)

      And probably applying in this case - in protesting said anti-constitutional organizations, for example a crossed out Swastika as a form of protest against Nazis is still very much legal.

      Most important is the intent. If you plan to use those symbols with the intent of furthering the ideology of anti-constitutional organizations, it is probably forbidden. The intention has to be clearly against those organizations, otherwise it might be actionable.

      Btw the communist party of Germany, the KPD is also considered an anti-constitutional organization and therefore it’s symbols are forbidden in the same way.

      • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
        20·
        11 hours ago

        §86a STGB allows for the use of “symbols of anti-constitutional organizations” in cases of:

        • art (e.g. the movie “Downfall”)
        • scientific research
        • education
        • news or other broadcast (covering Nazi Protests in the US for example, German news station don’t have to censor the Swastika flags or the like)

        Which is funny because the video game series Wolfenstein famously had to change all of their in-game imagery. The series is about killing Nazis, but it was banned in Germany until the game devs removed all of the swastikas. Because apparently showing the swastika is banned, even when it’s used explicitly to say “these are the bad guys.”

        • Lupus@feddit.org
          16·
          11 hours ago

          Yeah, there were some real conservative views on what counts as art or education and what does not that influenced that decision I figure.

          It’s silly regardless on both sides in my personal view. Like yeah it’s a little silly to not allow it, since the law would easily have allowed for it but also - it’s a Swastika, I’m fine in a video game without it, I’m not gonna die on that specific hill for sure.

      • Bobby Turkalino@lemmy.yachts
        26·
        13 hours ago

        Does “anti-constitutional” mean against the German constitution specifically, or the concept of constitutions? If the former, prohibiting ideas of government other than the active one is a pretty strict restriction on speech. I totally get the desire to outlaw imagery supporting Nazism because no one wants that shit to come back, but lumping communism in there too seems a bit strange. Or maybe I’m just totally misunderstanding what you said.

        • Lupus@feddit.org
          7·
          11 hours ago

          Does “anti-constitutional” mean against the German constitution specifically, or the concept of constitutions?

          Specifically the German constitution. Or as also worded in the law “the free democratic basic order of the FRG” -“die freiheitlich demokratische Grundordnung der BRD”.

          What this phrase means specifically is defined by decisions of the federal constitutional court and includes things like basic human rights, checks and balances, the independence of courts, the multi party system etc.

          Disrupting or trying to abolish those basic democratic laws is considered as trying to build a dictatorship or other form of unjust system.

          I don’t know the specifics about the KPD case but there are German communist parties, for example the DKP. It’s just that the KPD is considered undemocratic.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            4·
            5 hours ago

            The KPD in particular got banned for wanting to topple the government by force, also, they took their orders from Stalin. Being a communist as such is far from anti-constitutional, the German constitution was specifically written to be compatible, but it’s going to have to be democratic market socialism. What you want to do is heavily lean on Article 14(2): “Property entails obligations. Its use shall also serve the public good.” You can expropriate means of production by mere preference, without having to show that it’s for the public good.

        • door_in_the_face@feddit.nl
          4·
          10 hours ago

          In addition to what others have commented, communist and all other flavors of political parties are protected under the german constitution as long as they aren’t anti-democratic or call for violations of basic human rights. That’s because the right to form a party and express your political opinion is also protected in the constitution. So ironically it is really hard to ban fascist parties because the highest court would have to prove that their exercising their freedom to form a political party is in conflict with other basic rights and freedoms.

        • 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          2·
          12 hours ago

          Communism?

          Anti-constitutional here means directed against the Basic Law of the FRG or the constitution of Brandenburg (federal state).

          The Basic Law does not explicitly ban socialism, AFAIK.

          The ban on Nazi imagery is kind of necessary for a state patched together in the post-liberation Allied occupation.

    • Korhaka@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      53·
      14 hours ago

      It is with few exceptions. Given that it looks like the purpose is to call out a Nazi supporter I think they wouldn’t get in trouble for that though.

      • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
        18·
        12 hours ago

        It’s not exactly uncommon for systems set up to oppose something to end up supporting them instead. See the ADL covering for Elon and condemning those opposed to genocide as antisemitic. In theory the ADL should be opposed to fascism, but because Israel has become fascist they found themselves on the same side as those who had been and would be their oppressors.

        • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          1·
          3 hours ago

          When one’s ideological architecture if reliant on the idea that people are defined by ethnicity, whole ethnicities are good/victims and others are bad/aggressors and the ethnicity of a person determines how he or she should be treated, Fascism is but a miniscule distance away.

          This applies to Israel (whose constitution very literally says the country is a nation of a single ethnicity and all those of that ethnicity are its nationals) and its sockpuppets around the World, as does in Germany where the authorities have once again revealed their black heart in connection to the Israeli Genocide.

          I suspect a lot of those pseudo-idologies and organisations just served to hide those with a Fascist heart during the period when Fascism was “unfashionable” and now that it’s on the rise again they’re coming out in support of Fascists but using the language of the pseudo-ideology that so successfully made them seem movements for good rather than just another variant of Racist.

        • solomon42069@lemmy.world
          7·
          12 hours ago

          In the United States, teenage kids were put on the sex offenders registry for sending each other nudes. Those laws are in place to protect minors from people who are not minors, but apparently the judges did not see it that way in sentencing. Gotta love the word of the law being worth more than its spirit!

      • nialv7@lemmy.world
        10134·
        15 hours ago

        as a protest??? it’s probably going to have the exact opposite effect…

        • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
          44·
          12 hours ago

          I’m concerned you don’t know what a protest is. Or possibly think modem Germans like the Nazi salute!? I don’t know…

        • RedditWanderer@lemmy.world
          1172·
          15 hours ago

          Why would this backfire? You think germans and their gigafactory subsidies are going to like the nazi salute so much it will increase his popularity?

          • stebo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            3·
            7 hours ago

            the afd will, they will say it’s okay because musk isn’t a communist (unlike hitler, according to them)

          • nialv7@lemmy.world
            1184·
            13 hours ago

            Do you think there are no Nazi sympathizers in Germany? Don’t you see AfD on the rise there?

            Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.

            Like, if you just look at the photo, it even straight out says “heil Tesla”, for crying out loud. If this is a protest, they did a piss poor job of it. At least put a clown makeup on Elon’s face, what are they even doing.

            Edit: some people can’t even read it seems.

            • Lemminary@lemmy.world
              17·
              11 hours ago

              Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context

              You underestimate how much American news dominates the world news. Greetings from Mexico.

            • jj4211@lemmy.world
              151·
              10 hours ago

              Have a lot of meetings with Germans. The morning after the inauguration, every one of them asked what the hell was wrong with us that we had a Nazi salute in our inauguration. The context is very very well known over there

            • RedditWanderer@lemmy.world
              484·
              14 hours ago

              Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context

              Ok there, sources needed. It almost sounds like youre shilling for them. Next youre going to tell me he was just waving!

            • spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              241·
              13 hours ago

              Yeah, the average German won’t have heard about Nazi space karen throwing the heil. Especially after he was just there defending Nazis. Who would even know about that, just because it’s world wide news and involves something very poignant to the German people?

              🤡🤡

            • x1gma@lemmy.world
              25·
              14 hours ago

              Don’t you see AfD on the rise there? The AfD is not only rising because of Nazi sympathy, but also because of protest voters, a literal fuckton of drama around pretty much every other significant party, too many deaths being instrumentalized, and a disfunctional current government. Latest opinion poll: https://dawum.de/Bundestag/ - so “only” 20% support them.

              Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.

              Even german news are full of the orange idiot and his millionaire friends doing their escapades, and you seem to imagine most of the german population sitting there applauding him? “Blatant displays of the fascist salute” are NOT what many here want to do, but what most would like to do without consequences is punching a Nazi straight to their face.

              If you haven’t realized, many european governments shifted right because the populism of those parties exploited and used the political tensions and the accumulated anger for the past failures of many left and green hardliners very well.

              Germans are not more right or have more Nazis than many other European states, and given the hereditary guilt, less than many.

              • Serinus@lemmy.world
                24·
                13 hours ago

                I get his point, even if he didn’t state it eloquently. There are photography elements here that look kind of cool. Yeah, most people will focus on memories of history and, you know, how Nazis are fucking bad. But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone. Some people fall for anything with a cool font, even if it tarnishes the font for a lot of others. If I see a swastika, I want to see it carved into a Nazi’s forehead. I don’t want to see a stylized swastika with cool lighting effects that might appeal to a small number of idiots.

                It helps that Elon’s face looks particularly stupid.

                I don’t know that I agree with his argument, but I can see a grain of truth in it.

                • x1gma@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  6 hours ago

                  I get both your and his point, I personally just disagree, because I do not think that closing your eyes and ignoring it prevents people from being “recruited”.

                  In my opinion, this attempt and attitude has given the AfD in Germany (and probably several others) the space to grow, paired with a black and white mentality: the general attitude is mostly - either you vote left, or you’re a nazi, end of discussion. There is no longer a political spectrum in discussions, it’s us or them, left or right, normal or nazi, and I think that this is very, very bad. I think that a democracy should represent everyone, since what makes us a free and democratic state is that everyone is part of it, is represented, and has his freedom of thought, speech and beliefs. Making “having thoughts aligning with the right” a taboo only makes it more interesting, especially for younger people, and given that pretty much every Internet community also generates echo chambers (one or many), it makes it more attractive to potentially end up in one, where those people will realize that they can talk openly here, which makes them more susceptible to further radicalization. And to make it clear - violence of any kind is not included in the freedom, neither by the right, nor by the left.

                  Instead of focusing on how to prevent people from shifting right, which you simply can’t, I think we should focus on how we can prevent some people from shifting right, and some people from shifting further right, which is perfectly achievable by proper education, applying a spectrum of views and leaving space where more people do not feel left out.

                  Part of a left and democratic mindset is that all people are made and worth equal, tolerance, and an open mind. In the left versus right discussion there are more than just leftists, nazis, and nazi sympathizers. There are people who may be just not smart enough to figure out that they are just caught by polemic, populism and propaganda, or maybe who don’t even know what they are getting into. There are people who are just protest voting. Hell, even the deepest far-right nazi hellhole has or had people who are trying to leave it.

                  Sure, the actual nazis and hardliners will applaud that Musk picture and see and use it as confirmation and propaganda, and you won’t be able to influence them otherwise with that. All other groups in between can be influenced though, even though in both directions.

                  Specifically for Musk - his general public image has shifted very much from a technological and financial genius to a narcissist right hardliner multimillionaire, because of his actions and people publicly exposing and talking about them, and still he has a big cult of supporters who’ll be on his side till the end. And honestly? That’s fine, but I personally am very happy to see the general shift.

                • RedditWanderer@lemmy.world
                  71·
                  10 hours ago

                  “But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone”

                  What if calling out racists actually encourages people to become racist!! Better not mention racism at alll then amarite…

                  Also let’s just stop arresting people for crimes completely, what if someone hears that this dude murdered his wife and then everyone starts murdering their wife?

                  /s obviously but this is what you sound like. You sound like a bot trying to discourage this from being seen by appealing to people’s liberalism…

            • Deacon@lemmy.world
              51·
              13 hours ago

              Some people just slept in the day they were handing out common sense.

              I envy you the beauty sleep.

            • Bz1sen@lemmy.world
              34·
              7 hours ago

              Why are you downvoted? I am from Germany and you are totally right. With a lot of people in Germany this will 100 percent backfire. The educated already knew that Elon is a garbage nazi, the others will more so believe how he is such a cool guy and the savior of the planet

    • NOT_RICK@lemmy.worldEnglish
      35·
      15 hours ago

      The photo of Ellen and the “HEIL” appear to be projected onto the wall of the factory

    • hOrni@lemmy.world
      6·
      12 hours ago

      I’m guessing, he’ll stop paying his workers, surround the factories with barbed wire so they can’t escape and tattoo numbers on them to easier keep track of what they are doing.

      • endeavor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        2·
        6 hours ago

        Not a stretch his companies are already filled with racism and it has been legally proven so many times.

  • thefatfrog@lemmy.world
    1626·
    5 hours ago

    This is fake though. The letters don’t match and there is no other pic on the Internet to prove, it happened. But the fact it seems real, speaks volumes :D

    Edit: Turns out not fake. I was just skeptical at first.